The Patch #28

The Patch: The Patch #28

The Patch Discusses Ms Male Characters

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Comments (49)

  • Burnt2Shreds Metal Gear

    3 years ago

    [Double posted on accident]

    Post edited 12/14/13 12:52AM

  • Burnt2Shreds Metal Gear

    3 years ago

    Anita isn't even a real gamer; I have no idea why people listen to her. She admits it at around 12:40 in this video:

    vimeo.com/13216819

  • rhettdizzle FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    Is their hour glass off? The Patch was only 58 minutes?!?!

  • Bravo0777

    3 years ago

    Oh lord, I can't believe Burnie watched Ms. Male Character. Anita Sarkeesian is a fucking crybaby feminist.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJeX6F-Q63I

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWtJpHys_xA

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfkS9YS_T0k

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=25o0EZiogw0

  • KamakaziNES FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold SaneAdjacent

    3 years ago

    @Burnie has mentioned the hyper-male portrayal of characters in video games before, so I'd like to weigh in on this very specific angle of a bigger topic.

    It is true that Marcus Phoenix and other similar characters show an unrealistic portrayal of the male body. A major difference when comparing these portrayals with the hyper-sexualized female characters typically shown in games is that the portrayal of the males confirms and even adds to their stated role within the game. The super strong, super tough heroes look super strong and super tough. They wear heavy-looking armor that adds to the strength and toughness of their physique and also would appear to provide a quantifiable level of protection against enemies, justifying why the character would choose to wear it.

    The female characters, by contrast, almost never look like the characters they are meant to be portraying. Strong, tough warriors are shown as very thin with high fat-content in very localized areas. They do not look strong enough to carry out the tasks expected of them. They wear skimpy, revealing outfits that defy physics to stay in place and are counter-intuitive to the situations the character would expect to encounter.

    By doing this, the developers show a clear bias to the heterosexual male gamer by gearing everything to hetero-male fantasy fulfillment. If both genders were portrayed as equally representative of the roles they are meant to play, either by both being coherent with their surroundings, or both being incoherent (I wouldn't mind the sexualized female characters in fighting games nearly as much if there were just as many mostly-naked pretty boys to look at... unlockable skins are pretty standard in these games, so being able to choose which gender the player wants to ogle shouldn't be a difficult integration).

  • inteltrees

    3 years ago

    Nvidia has a similar recording feature to the Xbox one. It's called Shadowplay and it works with most GTX series cards. It can record your past 20 mins of gameplay.

  • Quinnell FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    Omg.. I have Burnie's stupid backspace problem all the time! Everytime it happens I'm like wtf?

  • Texian381

    3 years ago

    My problem with always having to be online is what if my internet goes down? It happens all the time because ISPs are absolutely worthless where I live. There have been times where I wasn't able to access Mass Effect 3 DLC content on my PC because the internet was down in my complex. I couldn't play my saves because they had the DLC in them, so I couldn't even play the game. There's so much that can go wrong with a requirement like that.

  • Steelekite FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    Sorry I don't contribute to your Youtube or iTunes stats RT, I always watch my videos on the Community site.

  • Darkhayle

    3 years ago

    You should have your female coworkers discussing ms male characters and the topic of female characters in the gaming industry in general. That would be interesting and important to hear!

  • Aideyn FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    Several people have made the point that male characters being super buff is not about sexualizing them for a female audience, starting with comic books, characters were built like that as a male power fantasy. (Here's a comic that sort of sums it up, for me at least.
    static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/3/38417/2525... While some women are able to look at women superheros as a power fantasy as well, that wasn't their initial design. Just take for example the foul contest DC Comics was running when they requested artists to sexualize Harley Quinn attempting suicide in multiple ways.

    Even if one person isn't presenting the issue in a way that is entirely fair, 'cherry-picking' being mentioned several times, a lot of the pieces she picked are very popular examples. Yes, clothing is an easy easy way to identify binary gender roles, but if gender isn't important to the story, that is not synonymous with when it is important to the story, we must make steps that make it seem all of our other characters are male by default.

    Yes, these things were easiest to use, but it isn't necessary any more. Not because of technology, not because of audience's headspace. And even if you don't think this as big as a problem in games as it once was, making sure that people realize that this is not the cookie-cutter pattern to follow to churn out more games, that there are flaws in something that they might have worshiped in their childhood, to let people know about these characterizations that hinder progress rather than help it, videos like hers do serve their purpose. Agree entirely or not, I feel like her videos are portrayed in a way that is not offensive or accusatory towards people who enjoy the pieces she is discussing and not being accusatory is the best way to get people to think about different view points, and ultimately reflecting on others view points is what helps many grow as people.

    To ask someone to accept or reject something entirely is wrong, let people come to their own conclusions based on their own experiences and things that they have learned about through others.

    Though, in seeing some of the comments, I do feel sad that people feel like the only way to address the concept of feminism is to attack it and tear it down as a whole. And I have to politely disagree about claims about 'plenty of strong female characters' when the person only lists two per game.

    I did giggle pretty hard at the topic shift when this subject became a bit too big for the room as it was, without time for more thought being put into any responses, I do hope the topic is broached again when everyone involved in the discussion has had time to think about some tropes they might not have considered before this podcast, preferably with a few more of the female gamers from RT's staff. The discussion of the roots of gaming and game creation was something I'd love to see delved into a bit more, as well as some ways to move forward to avoid tropes from some classic favorites that might not have been built with today's understanding of gender roles and gender identity in general.

    This has been long and rambling, but I had thoughts, and when you have thoughts and fingers, sometimes you type things.
    Great podcast, can't wait for next this weeks!

  • ThatOneTechie FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    I really need to start listening to RT stuff on headphones while playing my Xbone. No, xbox, don't record that!

  • Spurs9ster

    3 years ago

    That song at the end is still really catchy. I thought this was a great podcast overall, and Ryan made some good points about the roots of gaming and such. Looking forward to how things within gaming and society change throughout the coming years.

  • micosborne FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    I want a shirt with Burnie posing as uncle Sam that says "I support U!"

  • TheMainMetho

    3 years ago

    I make them same mistake with TellTale and Traveler's Tale.
    Also, mistakes were made with the Xbox One UI and Achievements. They were made.

  • CmndrJustine FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    I would love to hear more discussion on the Ms. Male trope. I found those videos really interesting.

    Although I don't think an entirely male cast are the appropriate people to talk about it. I love Burnie, Gus and Ryan but neither of them have vaginas so they can't relate to the accuracy of the Ms. Male trope in video games. Same with almost everyone leaving comments here. No hate, just pointers yo.

    This is why I play games like Fallout where you generally have no gender until you decide what you wany to play as. The only downside is that female clothes are not available for male genders and some male clothes are not available, or just made skimpier, for the female genders.

    If there is another all ladies Podcast, they should discuss it!

    Post edited 11/29/13 4:08PM

  • persho

    3 years ago

    Ryan was REALLY beating around the bush when he was talking about the male focus stereotype in gaming.

  • ChromeQueen FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Viva la Sponsor

    3 years ago

    I didn't watch the ms male video yet, but I feel like its important to note (just from what you guys were talking about as far as males v females in videogames) its not about expecting men to look like Marcus Fenix and or expecting women to look like Cammy. Its about in terms of character design men are represented as people of power and women are portrayed as sexual objects. No matter what their points in the stories might be its the representation not the expectation thats so important.

  • babypanthers

    3 years ago

    ryan the knowledge guy

  • Acem

    3 years ago

    Another great patch!

    With the Ms. Male video, I think she is looking too far into it. In older games, they didn't have a lot of ways to show characters were female except with bows, pink, dresses, etc. Should Ms. Pacman look exactly like Pacman? NO. In real life women don't wear the same clothes as men, or vice versa... usually. It is called character design and development... not anti-feminism. Should Ms. Pacman have been in a business suit, wearing glasses, and going to meetings? NO. That would have made for a very boring game.

    Still waiting to see which next-gen console will pull ahead of the other, but right now both have their problems, and both just keep either saying or copying what the other one does. i.e. Kinect turns out to be a good success, now Sony is looking into improving the voice commands.

    • KamakaziNES FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold SaneAdjacent

      3 years ago

      You raise a good point about graphics limitations, but I think the core issue raised by the ms male video is that male is almost universally portrayed as the default setting.

      When dealing with graphically limited games, most characters on screen could easily come across as gender neutral (as Ryan pointed out). By adding the female identifiers to a small minority of characters it, by default, makes the remaining majority of characters male. Male becomes the normal standard, female the minority variant, a variant that typically could not co-exist with an actual skill, trade or personality marker, as portrayed by the male versions, due to those same graphical limitations. If a sizable percentage of graphically limited games had gender neutral characters, with skill or personality markers, and then had male identifiers for a small minority of characters, making the rest female, this would not be much of an issue. The fact that it typically only goes the one way is what makes it more of a problem.

  • babypanthers

    3 years ago

    has burnie asked ryan what type of music his son listens to?

  • hobokiefer95

    3 years ago

    another great episode of the patch great work! :)

  • KoscheiTD FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    Thanks for mentioning Feminist Frequency, Burnie. It's a great channel that deserves all the support and mentions it can get smiley0.gif

    • Bravo0777

      3 years ago

      Anita Sarkeesian Isn't Worth Your Attention. www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWtJpHys_xA

    • Yoming

      3 years ago

      i too am more than a little concerned about fem freq. while the newest video was good, burnie lending support sends shudders of pharyngula flashbacks through me. lots of roosterteeth listeners are younger, and might not understand anita and her relationship with online criticism.

    • UriskLyErg

      3 years ago

      Bullshit Feminist Frequency, while making appropriate points cherry picks to the extreme, ignores counter arguments and flat out blocks comments from being made on her page. It is akin to her plugging her ears and going la la la like a child. On top of this while she stated she needed so much money for the research she is doing, many of the clips she uses to showcase the games are taken from other youtube/twitch members without appropriate credit or even acknowledgement. Don't get me wrong I'm all for fixing the image of women in games but there have been things which she has clearly skipped over because they counter act her points. This is also one of the fundamental issues with Feminism as well. There are many "Extreme" Feminists who don't realize that men and women are not equal. They clearly have different roles in life, men are typically more physically strong as they were designed to protect women in the past. I'm all for women having the same rights and options to do the same things as men, but it needs to be recognized that women are different from men and it will always be the case. I don't think that the over sexualisation of men nor women in video games is appropriate but sex sells which is the same reason the media pushes magazines of Photoshopped girls. Facts for both sides should be carefully considered, not cherry picked as Burnie stated, and from these the appropriate conclusions should be made. Ryan makes a very important point that the reason this is the case is because of gaming's roots, however FF would much rather just spam a bunch of hype to try and make more money, which is the exact reason her and points similar to it have been laughed at and ignored over the years.

  • crazyterran FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    "Oh, nova is wearing a skin tight suit, she's sexualized!" - summing up the complaints on Nova.

    Obviously these people don't play Starcraft, as all the Ghosts have to wear a skin tight suit, so that they can turn invisible and use their Psionics. Raynor wears a pretty skin-tight outfit. Kerrigan turns into a space alien, who cares if she wears chitin-high heels. Sylvanas is undead (don't remember if she is in HotS), who cares if she is showing Midriff.

    Speaking of Sylvanas and, even Jaina, they are strong Female Characters within Warcraft, with Nova and Kerrigan being strong female characters within Starcraft. Sylvanas is perhaps one of the most evil characters in the game, where as Jaina is the most powerful mortal mage in all of Warcraft, and leads the nation of Mages. She does some pretty hardcore shit in MoP, as well, and takes charge and pushes the attack when Varian (the Male Alliance lead) falters.

    Blizzard has plenty of strong female characters - Nova being one of them. Jumping on the skin of a character that has a good story reason (and male counterparts who have the same thing) is absolutely stupid.

    Of course, listening to Rock Paper Shotgun to begin with is pretty stupid.

    (Sorry for the rant, the fact that the Blizzard Dev even apologized is silly to me. RPS took a comment and blew it way out of proportion for hits. Hell, when I originally read the article, I thought it was a satire.)

  • HOWtwoROCK

    3 years ago

    loading.gif

  • Demonitus FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    What a cliffhanger there at the end!

    Will we find out next week who was wearing a tuxedo and why? : p

    • lukeglover80 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold RT is Great!

      3 years ago

      yeah i think they cut it off there on purpose smiley8.gif

  • RVBCheckmate

    3 years ago

    Metacritic needs to die off the face of the gaming industry. It is a cancer that leads to developers sucking up to Metacritic scores (Total War: Rome II -- Creative Assembly) and hindering their development progress. It also dumbs down gamers into simply basing whether a game is good based on a 1 to 10 scale as opposed to in depth critical analysis.

    Apparently, Steam wants to also integrate Scores. PLEASE don't. Or else Steam Reviews will simply replace Metacritic.

    • icantfindtag

      3 years ago

      I like the idea of Steam user reviews. I generally go off of aggregate user opinions rather than critics' reviews, and it's something that I think Steam has been lacking for a long time.

      What would you recommend replace Metacritic? I think that it's a pretty useful resource in determining what games are good and what games are bad overall.

  • Shellysummer

    3 years ago

    when do they actually make this show live?

    • Donosaur

      3 years ago

      Wednesay 4:00 pm central time, this one was pre-recorded due to Thanksgiving.

  • LAMPxBOSS

    3 years ago

    "...When Half Life 3 comes out..." - Burnie. Half Life 3 confirmed. lol

  • Donosaur

    3 years ago

    Joe the Cat is back in the office!

  • kd0g1982 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    3 years ago

    8th!!!!

    • Donosaur

      3 years ago

      Congratulations.

  • billsonfire

    3 years ago

    I thought the Ms male characters thing wasn't too off base. But the majority of the characters she was talking about started out as guys and were given female counter parts later on. Also most of them were in really cartoony games, so it's harder for them to clearly show that they're girls, so giving them items that have as strong female association makes the most sense. In the games where she said that they did the girl thing well, the girls were the main characters so it's not as hard as they're not based on an existing model.

  • Rhyfel AgentPhoenix

    3 years ago

    I enjoy the steam reviews :). I wrote one on Black Flag, is interesting seeing gamers on steam agreeing with what you say about a game, and how well that translates into new Black Flag gamers purchasing the game steamcommunity.com/id/scottalogan/recommended/24... :D.

    Also about Steam Market, yes you can sell and purchase TF2, Dota 2, and other items for actual cash. Not just Hats but traders uses TF2 or Dota2 Keys as currency to trade for games or paypal cash. Also trading games, and cards, or putting up the items on the market so that gamers can search for it paying via Steam Wallet $.

    Post edited 11/28/13 1:54PM

  • xXTH0RNXx

    3 years ago

    I´ve heared that 10% off intro like 20 times today, I think I´m going to become a serial killer ;)

  • kingghost

    3 years ago

    How did Burnie Know something would happen. Freaking Pokemon Cheaters.

  • Holy_Spirit

    3 years ago

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

  • aminethebean

    3 years ago

    My favorite Patch crew!

    • joan529

      3 years ago

      Google is paying 75$/hour! Just work for few hours & spend more time with friends and family. On Sunday I bought themselves a Alfa Romeo from having made $5637 this month. its the best-job Ive ever had.It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it out Buzz95.com

  • ytrahne FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Guardian x6

    3 years ago

    I can't wait for everyone's take on Ms Male characters. *earmarks for later when not at work*