The Patch #102

The Patch: The Patch #102

The Patch Discusses Steam Paid Mods

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  • kylie138

    2 years ago

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  • SymoNic FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Symonic

    2 years ago

    Ok this is just a suggestion because I'm so lazy, but I wonder if anyone else thinks its a good idea.

    Putting a link to that weeks game club video in the link dump of each patch? Yes, it is lazy on my side, its only 3 or 4 more clicks to find it myself, but still. smiley0.gif

    Post edited 5/06/15 11:55PM

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    2 years ago

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    2 years ago

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  • RiverRunning

    2 years ago

    I appreciated your pun Gus! :D

  • RiverRunning

    2 years ago

    I'm glad I listen to these without spending much time watching the video (only when something interesting is brought up visually or there's something emotional) because the audio synching was weird... maybe it's the way they move their lips but Ashley was worse than Ryan who was worse than Gus - but the audio was definitely off for all of them and by that uncanny valley amount too...

    Other than that it was a pretty good patch, despite the topics of news not being the best...

  • Chiyosei

    2 years ago

    I go to Sheridan College, and I know for a fact, I have friends that are in the animation program and it takes everyone to make a short 60 second 2d animation film at least a year and a half for them to make all on their own, with little to no sleep for weeks. If the company has only one animator I can definitely see why it took them 15 months.

  • DavidNZ FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    RE: Telltale Marvel Game

    While I think the game will take design (and maybe even story) inspiration from the MCU, I think it will exist in it's own universe. That would allow the player to make really world altering decisions. (i.e.: the life/death of major heroes could be in your hands)

    Plus, as it's a game (not a movie) they can bring in a much larger cast. One of the best things about the LEGO Marvel game from a few years back was the truly enormous cast of characters from all over the comics.

  • Clyde0247

    2 years ago

    The audio isn't synced, it's freaking me out.

  • Willimach FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    How about a character already in he MCU. Howard the Duck. Marvel have just re-launched the comic line with tremendous success, it's being well received by critics and fans. It would be a very interesting dynamic in comparison to the rest of the MCU.

  • BEELZACK FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold '); DROP TABLE users

    2 years ago

    I think it'll be Moon Knight [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Knight]
    He's big enough to draw in the die hard fans, too small to actually affect anything or have a TV show on netflix, or a movie.
    He's also a very interesting character for a telltale style game due to his multiple personality disorder.

    • StrawdogG2 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      Moooooooon Knight!

  • CloneTrooper

    2 years ago

    Easiest way to make the Marvel Telltale game connect to the MCU without it affecting it....

    Use Deadpool.

    A) He cant show up in anything MCU related on Big or Small Screen because Fox has those rights, but Marvel still have the rights to put him in Video Games etc.

    B) You can do all sorts of choices and shit with Deadpool and play it off as happening in his head or whatever.

    Id just love seeing him interact with the MCU characters.

  • colin9413c FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    So glad to see a Patch without Meg, she's really been dragging this podcast down for me. The always excited personality gets old fast, much like the squeaky high pitched voice that she puts on every once in a while. I'm sure she's a nice person, but man does it kill it for me.

  • Galm666 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold ODST

    2 years ago

    I had to break the news of the cancelled Silent Hills to my friend, twas a sad look on his face when he finished looking it up. smiley3.gif

  • dinkuspony

    2 years ago

    What's the game of next weeks game club?

    • gezmodean FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      I believe they said it was "don't starve together"

  • gezmodean FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    Regarding some of the game development comments in this week's podcast, I was very happy to hear you all offering your perspective.

    First off, I should say that I am a game industry professional, and have been making games for ~12 years (ran my own studio, worked as a dev director and executive producer at a few others). Nothing I say below should be construed as anything other than my own personal opinion, and doesn't reflect any inside information/etc. I also recognize that my views may be contentious, but I am hoping to provide some insight without starting a flame war ;)

    First, regarding the comment that Ryan made regarding the modders using the game more like a game engine
    There are a number of substantial differences to using a game engine versus an existing game to produce content. Most mods are born out of systems designed for game teams to easily produce cross platform and game specific content quickly and safely. The level/quest/system designers only build the assets they need, and the core team builds supporting functionality. In a game engine, while some of these things exist, the level of technical knowledge and system design knowledge required is greater to build the same experience. (Consider for example, that you need to make the systems to store account and player data, loading/saving, cross platform functionality, internationalization/localization, basic game flow, etc. Then consider that you have the physics of movement, combat, quest progression, and other core systems that most mods only touch in isolation...). This effectively means you have a larger investment to get something up and running (not just licensing cost, but time investment/etc).

    Also consider that there is a host of content that can be repurposed and reused to make new content more quickly with a mod. You have a ton of functional examples that you can play through to model your content off of, whether its a new weapon, or spell, or a full campaign. In an existing engine, while there are SDKs (and some starter kits), there is a significant increase in time required to get off of the ground and make anything AAA quality. You also can't undervalue the IP itself. People make mods because they like the parent game.

    Perhaps more importantly, a game like Skyrim has an existing install base, and group of mod users who may be willing to check out my work. I don't need to invest time/effort in making a business relationship with apple/facebook/google/valve/etc to try to get my content seen, because a community already exists. If you said you were going to build medieval soccer as a mod vs building the game, and you build ALL of the assets so there is development parity, the skyrim mod would have potentially less business cost to get it to a committed group of users who might be interested.

    Mods are a great method to incubate an idea and some of the industry's greatest success stories were born out of mods (one of my favorite is the MOBA genre really getting its legs as a warcraft 3 map). Once an idea needs room to grow, moving from a mod to a full game makes a lot of sense, and its something that many people in the industry would love to see happen more often. Most developers will tell you that we are always blown away by what the community manages to do with the tools we make... we are ALWAYS surprised (and its wonderful).

    I would just be careful not to imply that even the full campaigns are using skyrim as an engine (though if you have examples, I'd love to hear them).

    Regarding the challenges of monetizing mods
    I also have experience working on Second Life, and have experienced some of the challenges that Valve/Bethesda had firsthand. Allowing users to monetize user generated content is a worthy challenge. It is also costly. At the simple level, you have problems like copy protection and ownership, distribution (look at the storefront problem for navigating and installing mods). You also have to implement a DMCA process to protect copyrighted content, implement systems to manage fraud (example, someone bought your content with a stolen credit card, who loses the payment?), your customer service volume increases, and the list goes on and on. These systems also don't get much cheaper at smaller scale (though they do get cheaper at larger scales). Not many teams have the capability in house to build and manage these systems, so its a bit of investment to make things work long term.

    In the case of Skyrim, there was another class of problem, where people took effectively open source/free mods from one site and moved them to the closed ecosystem. Note that you also have the opposite problem that can occur, where people can take a 'premium mod', download it, and then re-post the items for free. Implementing the systems to protect mod creators in these instances, is only worthwhile if its something the community will use, and will make money (otherwise its time best spent in making the next game or DLC).

    If you're NOT monetizing the mods, and they are officially unsupported, its a different ballgame. Its largely up to the community to administer at that point. (that said, you always incur some cost because of mods, because your team needs to understand them and their impact to the game for support purposes, and explaining when something is a mod vs normal game behavior).

    Nonetheless, the point is that its not 'just a money grab'. Its also not a solved problem (as evidenced by the launch with skyrim).

    Ultimately, the dev teams want something like this to be successful. Its another revenue stream that makes it possible for us to make more games, and give the games we sink our heart and souls into more runway. Many of us in the industry have also been there, making our own mods, and want a safe, legal way for mod developers to make money on their wonderful creations.

    Post edited 5/01/15 4:35PM

    • gezmodean FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      Why thank you ;)

    • Rule34 In Vino Veritas

      2 years ago

      Dude, just got to say...

      In my opinion (regardless of whether or not I agree with everything you wrote), that's the most calmly delivered, thought out, knowledgeable, logic driven, well presented opinion I've ever seen in a comment section...for anything...ever.

      Kudos, H smiley0.gif

  • gezmodean FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    Suggestions for Game Club:
    - Play Thomas was Alone. Its on a number of platforms (mobile included), its relatively short, and seems like a great fit for the format.
    - Give us a list of the games that are in the till, so we don't give you the same suggestion until you play it ;)

  • CtheReason FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    Squirrel Girl would be a great game! Ryan North does an amazing job writing the comic and I would hope they'd tap him to write for a game as well.

  • Maturin FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    In my opinion skyrim was an ok game, but the mods made the game batter and a game i can go back and play time after time and get a different experience every time. You can see that in ESO, people was expecting the new WOW but we got an ok game.

  • neala12

    2 years ago

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  • KWildman FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    Dumb question.
    Is there a place where I can watch Game Club?

    • WellForFoxSake FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      Not sure why Child of Light epi isn't up yet.

    • WellForFoxSake FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=TPGC&v=more

  • kira862 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Randomness

    2 years ago

    In theory, paid mods is a good idea, but the reality is that most people don't want to spend one or two dollars on a new sword, especially when they can get something similar for free, or a pack that comes with hundreds of new swords for free. Even mods like wet and cold, or INeed which add levels of immersion to the game, similar things can be found which function just as well. The only mod I could have seen myself paying for because of how radically it changes the game would have been SkyUI.

    Still, the skyrimnexus now has a very obvious donation button that a lot of people didn't know about until this shit storm hit, so hopefully more people will be willing to donate to modders.

  • caseybutler FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold half flannel

    2 years ago

    Game Club suggestion "Super Time Force", for Xbox, Steam, and PS4.

  • MikePridemor FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    I want it to be a Taskmaster game, where he is more of an antihero like he is later in the comics

  • Hawkn FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    Paid mods are a good idea (I'm all for supporting the developers of mods), but Valve's implementation sucked.

  • MikeyC93 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    The one problem I can see with having paid mods on workshop is that everyone can upload stuff and charge what the like. This could end up with everyone over charging for mods if they were inclined to as if they were only on the workshop of that kind then you would have to buy it there. So therefor prices could go through the roof for everything and lead to mods not being as good or worth it for most people.

    • AlphaHex FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      I would agree that's a genuine worry, and I'll admit I have downloaded all of 1 mod (day-z) and found it a pig to get working so I feel paying for a mod should offer some support. But at the end of the day it's that modders work, I think if they want to charge a large price that's their prerogative, it's their time after all, and it being free in the past shouldn't effect the future in my opinion.

    • MikeyC93 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      I'm not against people monetising mods at all. I can agree that it is a good idea if it is done correctly.The problems I see is that it could open an avenue for all mods to become expensive. They way I see it is that as there would be no way to cap prices everyone could make things expensive. I'm not saying that is what would happen but it is a possibility that would be there for people to capitilise on and drive up the prices.

    • AlphaHex FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      But should the threat of some modders making their mods too expensive (which considering they put all the work in is their choice) mean no one should be able to monetize their mods?

  • Fellhawkslc

    2 years ago

    How about Natural Selection 2? It is multiplayer only, but it's a unique blend of asymmetrical RTS and FPS with a distinct Aliens vibe. I recommend you try playing both sides, and with voice chat on or in a group if you do. It can be found on the Steam Workshop.

  • JimToledo

    2 years ago

    The slash and burn between Konami and Kojima, as well as the complete radio silence from Kojima makes me think that some sort of terrible scandal was discovered by Konami. They found out some terrible thing about him, or he was involved in something awful, or even criminal, and Konami is cutting the potential shit storm before it happens. The radio silence from him as well could be him laying low to see if whatever he did/was involved in gets found out.

    • sjack

      2 years ago

      It's far less controversial than that. Kojima is keeping his mouth shut because Konami essentially has MGS V hostage. Him and his team have been working on this game for the past 4 years and he doesn't want the big brass to sabotage the release and marketing of the game, which is why he doesn't want to incur any further controversy between them.

  • sjack

    2 years ago

    hey ahsley, ignore the jackasses who hype up the dying aspect to the souls games/bloodbore. the difficulty has always been overblown. the difficulty is challenging, but manageable. Bloodborne especially has been the most forgiving. You have no consequences to dying besides losing your souls-uh, I mean "blood echoes" which you can retreat from where you dide. It has a harsh learning curve but it's a rewarding experience and there's a supportive community on reddit to help you along :)

    • sjack

      2 years ago

      @AlphaHex Yes...which is why I think Bloodborne is more forgiving. Even with the removal of shields, you have stuff like the health regain to mitigate full on attacks. Put into account the fact that stamina consumption for rolls and hits is far more generous, you can brute force your way through a lot of early fights by just mashing R1.

    • AlphaHex FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      But they did all that to counter the removal of shields, which gave you a safety net where after messing up you can still mitigate the damage you take. It's the same reason if you get hit and hit back fast enough you get your health back imo

    • sjack

      2 years ago

      @AlphaHex What I mean is there's less punishment for death, more maneuverability and more invincibility frames on your character than previous Souls game. You don't go undead and gradually lose your health. The starting area has far more shortcuts than the Undead Burg and therefore far easier to get to the bosses. Bosses and enemies are easier to dodge to due the previously mentioned increased invincibility frames. Taking away equip burden and stuff like poise, as well as streamlining the upgrade mechanics also makes the game feel less overwhelming than all the previous menu inventory and information that past games have thrown at you.

    • A_Testudo

      2 years ago

      When it comes to any of these games be it Souls or Bloodborne, the thing that kills you is lack of knowledge. When you can find an enemy preferably alone just see their patterns and usually your block can absorb the attack.

      That terrified me when an enemy was so much bigger than me and I would try to dodge and pay for it. But in the end it doesn't matter if they are so hard or not, they're fun and that's why I play.

    • AlphaHex FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      2 years ago

      I'd disagree on the Bloodborne being the most forgiving, you have to remember that after playing the other games when you walk into a new one you have a huge advantage over new comers

  • Farlichu FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    Question for future patch-going: both Meg and Ashley are self-professed RPG fans and lovers of Final Fantasy games. With that in mind, have either of you tried Final Fantasy XIV yet? Yes, it's an MMO, but one with a distincting FF flavour. With Jack starting WOW again, and Gus being a past player of MMOs too, it'd be cool to hear what you guys think of this game. Just my two cents. c:

    (PS you can get adorable in-game pets like this one.)

    Post edited 4/30/15 5:40PM

  • Rkilbane20 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    My tweet was read on the Patch!

  • Outis FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Non Mea Culpa

    2 years ago

    My first thought when Ryan said Skyrim was My Cousin Vinny...
    "Skyrum workshop-" "Whut?" "Wat?" "Whut was that word? Skyrum?" "Yeah, Skyrum." "Whut's a Skyrum?"

  • bobzombie3k FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    2 years ago

    I wouldn't be surprised if Iron Fist or Luke Cage are the focus of the Telltale Marvel game.

    • CloneTrooper

      2 years ago

      Probably not since they're both going to be Netflix shows.